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Bob Lutz Cadillac CTS-V Challenge Results Announced

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2009 Cadillac CTS-V

2009 Cadillac CTS-V

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Last month, during a discussion with journalists about General Motors’ new “May the Best Car Win” marketing campaign, Bob Lutz laid down the challenge to any journalist to a duel with the Cadillac CTS-V to see if any comparable car could topple the Caddy.

The guys at Jalopnik quickly accepted, putting forward Wes Siler who was originally planning to race in a Jaguar XFR until officials pulled the car because of fears of the brakes overheating. Luckily Siler still had a Mitsubishi Evo on hand.

He was joined by Jack Baruth from The Truth About Cars who also drove a Cadillac CTS-V and several ‘civilians’ driving a BMW M3, a BMW M5, an Audi RS4 and even another Cadillac CTS-V.

Well, the event took place today at the Monticello Motor Club in Monticello, N.Y. and we now have the results. Taking top honors was former GM Performance Division Executive John Heinricy with a lap time of 2m and 46.56s in the Cadillac CTS-V.

1. Cadillac CTS-V (John Heinricy): 2:46:560
2. Cadillac CTS-V (Brian Redman): 2:49:183
3. Cadillac CTS-V (Aaron Link): 2:48:902
4. BMW M3 (Michael Cooper): 2.50:424
5. Cadillac CTS-V (Jack Baruth): 2:51:153
6. Cadillac CTS-V (Lawrence Ulrich): 2:53:026
7. Cadillac CTS-V (Bob Lutz): 2:56:321
8. Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X (Wes Siler): 3:08.126
9. BMW M5 (Michael Mainwald): 3:08:989
10. Cadillac CTS-V (Chris Fairman.): 3:14:292
11. Audi RS4 (Tom Loder): 3:15:702
12. Jaguar XF (Archan Basu): 3:16.670

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Comments (46)
  1. wtf?? M5 and Panamera? what yall smokin?
     
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  2. The front end of the CTS-V is just so cheap looking! The regular CTS looks better and that's not saying much.
     
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  3. And the Euro Trash snobs strike again!!!! The M5 and the Panamera are very heavy cars where as the Caddy is an Engine and a seat!!!!!
    In the words of Mr. Chapman "added lightness"
     
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  4. Uhmmm...The M5 is the lightest car of the 3 mentioned, MWOW. The Caddy weighs about 100lbs. more.
    Not sure your Chapman quote applies to any of these.
     
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  5. um Tall Paul....
    you do realize that the CTS-V has already beaten the M5 right?
    oh and flyhead, what's wrong with the M5 being in the challenge? its Cadillac's direct competition for the CTS-V.
     
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  6. The CTS-V did beat the M5. It is an unblievable car. I've driven one and it is top notch all the way. The ride, handling, and quality all rival the german cars. The power surpassing them all. I own an Audi and I've had two BMWs. The Cadillac CTS-V is amazing!!!! I can't believe that Cadillac has done it - finally! I'm waiting for the CTS-V wagon. If they don't do the wagon I'll get the CTS-V sedan. Either way that car is mine.
     
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  7. Elmo I'm not putting all my eggs in the M5 basket. I'm simply pointing out an error.
    I am one of those strange people that has very little brand loyalty. If a car company, or any other company for that matter, can produce a great product I respect that and consider it. Maybe that's why I tend to look at the details like weight and such. It helps get a better understanding of why certain products are the way they are. Hooray for Cadillac. I hope they continue making better and better products.
     
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  8. Tim Paul:
    The BMW carries 8.024 LBS per horse power
    The Caddy carries 7.593 per horse power.
    How do you take your crow; baked, fried, maybe in a pie perhaps?
    Ultimatley its just gratifying to see that with a huge amount of pressure Detroit is seeing the light!!!!
     
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  9. In regards to the Porsche they dont even make enough lipstick for that pig!!!
    Panamera S 9.92 LBS per horse power
    Panamera 4S 10.25 LBS per horse power
    Panamera Turbo 8.68 LBS per horse power
    Although for the Turbo Porsche could run the GM test at 12,000 feet above sea level and just storm away with the victory!!!! It worked for Ford.....
    So what would I rush out and buy?
    The Caddy spec V in a wagon (when it launches next year) and the Porsche because I have penchant for ugly Porsche's. Having had two 928's run through the family garage...
     
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  10. Your funny MWOW. If you mean power to weight ratio then say power to weight ratio. By your excitement I can tell you spent a lot of time looking up the weights and such so you could have a "comeback".
    Weight affects more than acceleration.
     
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  11. In a nut shell I spent maybe two minutes putting my "comeback together". At the end of the day its fun to poke holes in people's arguments and sure some come back at me which to me and my staff passes the down time at the studio.
    I've noticed on this site that most people tend to just jump on the Euro band wagon (which is where I'm from) without sampling what else is out there. The first gen Spec V was complete pile of shit and the clutch pedal would come back at you ready to take your leg off but the current car really is a good car and puts the Euro's on notice much as Lexus did twenty years ago.
    There are a few notable's on here with sense though i.e. Gus and NoNameDenton to name just two.
     
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  12. MWOW, your right on about people jumping on the Euro bandwagon. But it goes the other way as well. A fine example is my first post. It was followed by an immediate reaction as if I was defending the M5 which I was not. Just simply stating a fact from the press kits of these cars which gave the curb weight.
    I know Gus, and Gus aint no....just kidding Gus.
    I have a Mustang too.
     
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  13. Of course the CTS-V would win, there is not much weight difference and the CTS-V is supercharged with 50hp more. Every bit of power makes a difference on the track. Great car nevertheless, but it can say goodbye when the next F10 M5 is due.
     
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  14. Bugatti Galiber
     
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  15. Audi RS6, Mercedes CL63 amg brabus rocket
     
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  16. why do so many losers goto argue over an article on the comments section. must be nice to not have to work for a living you fags
     
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  17. Um, Audi RS6?
     
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  18. So Cadillac made the CTS, saw it couldn't match the M5 and made radical modifications on it, the CTS-V so it could beat it.
    It's like Audi making the R6, waiting for the M5 to come out, then making the RS6 to be sure they beat the M5.
    If BMW wanted it, they could easily destroy the competition. It turns out the competition needs two tries to beat the M5.
    I'm only saying that if there were a BMW MS5 or MR5, whatever, it would anihilate the competition - actually there would be no competition.
     
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  19. Jean Todt I'm confused by your post. The CTS is the standard model and the CTS V is the sport version. Are you saying the M5 is the only model BMW offers their 5 series in? Did something change in their model line-up? Also you can get a standard 3 series an M3 and an M3 CSL, hmmmmmm.
    I think you'll find the European luxury market has standard models, sporty but not to sporty, and then full on hardcore sport models. i.e. Audi has a 6, S6, and RS6. Merdcesdes has SLK, SLK AMG, and SLK AMG Black Mercedes also has the three model's on their SL range too...
    If anything BMW and their M5 are missing the boat on compromise.For some it is to hardcore for the daily commute and for some customers it may not be hardcore enough!!
     
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  20. Don't question my argumentation! I'm the boss of the FIA, I'll school you on automobiles any day of the week.
    lol but seriously, I hadquite some champagne before writing this, see, I have been partying a lot after I won the elections. I forgot the CTS was the standard model and supposed the CTS was like the R6 for the Audi A6 model. Yes, a stupid mistake.
    Still, the rest applies, with concerns to mid sized sedans like the 5 series, A6, E class, CTS etc. BMW makes one sport version, like Mercedes - there is only the E 63 AMG. Whereas Audi make the R6 and then the RS6 to beat the M5.
     
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  21. Err.. Mr. Todt sir, you did meant to say the A6 the first time, right? Unless Audi found an urgent need to make a smaller version of the R8... oh wait! They don't, they already have the TTRS...
     
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  22. "If BMW wanted it, they could easily destroy the competition. It turns out the competition needs two tries to beat the M5."
    Sorry, I just threw up in my mouth after reading that fanboy response. BMW is hurting after getting beat down by Caddy and they have nothing near ready to beat the CTS-V.
     
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  23. "If BMW wanted it, they could easily destroy the competition. It turns out the competition needs two tries to beat the M5"
    I guess BMW might want to start wanting it, cause they are getting killed. So I guess they just took a few years off, because they didn't feel like it? Put the crack pipe down Jean.
     
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  24. The subject of this article or matter has been completely missed. What everyone here seems to be ranting on about seems to be whether or not the BMW 5 series (in whatever trim), the Audi A6 (again, in whatever trim), Mercedes, or Cadillac, etc. is better. Better at what, exactly? Ultimately, what matters is when you have $60K or more sitting in your pocket and you want the best of both worlds, a Real Performance blended with a True Luxury sedan, what do you buy?
    Do you settle for the Performance/Luxury flagship? That said, BMW has intermittently held that position for the better part of the last 3 decades. If not, then do you settle in to the over engineered safety brute that is Mercedes? Dare you hope there may be a trained technician within a few miles? Do you go for the "Transporters" ferocity of a sedan and opt for the VW on steroids?
    Or, Can you be the odd man out and just go by the track numbers this car posted around a track? Well, then, how about giving Cadillac a try? Sure GM is now owned by Obama... sure, Cadillac hasn't produced an ownership worthy car in the last 30 to 40 years, and sure, why not go for something that is the newest kid on the block? It's fast around a track, right?
     
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  25. ....(continued)...
    And that's what matters here, and that is what this article is about. Jaguar, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche... None of them are willing to have their butts kicked on a track by a Cadillac. A time-has-only-told-they-are-all-crappy, American, plastic, Cadillac. Despite how good it really is. That what this article is saying. Not which is the best car to own. Not which car will surely be worth every penny. Not, "How long is your warranty? Cause, You'll need it!" Ask yourself, "Is it FAST?"
    Oddly, no one has mentioned the Infinity G37 sedan or coupe. Not the Lexus IS-F. The boy toy Mitsu EVO was typed in somewhere, but I saw no mention of the Subbie STi. No Chrysler 300M-SRT-8, no Hyundai Genesis, not even the all-mighty 200mph Continental Flying Spur Speed! No one has even brought up the Maserati Quattroporte S, for the love of graham-crackers! Talk about a gorgeous piece of art. And that sound..... a true sports sedan that was built for the Gods.
    Hell, lets bring the Jaguar to the track. If anything, the Jag would be the only car in the lineup that should be there. A mesh-mash of multi-continental engineering crammed in a car with an extremely inconsistent and rippled past. Ford owned it for a while, so that should be good enough! Is it FAST?
     
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  26. That said...
    I have had the true pleasure of driving nearly each of these marvelous machines. (minus the Bentley) I gasp at their greatness. I rejoice in the pleasure with which they each graced me. The memories of each drive invoke a swirling grin on my face. I don't at all consider the Cadillac CTS-V to be inferior, nor do I believe that it doesn't NOW belong within the likes of the Mercedes AMG's and BMW M's. I am thrilled the engineers at GM have put together such a magnificent toy. However, what I don't understand is how the track numbers make it worthy of instant "Glamour" status.
    Is that what it takes? A few over-achieving years of good thinking, some parts bin sharing, a quick trip around the "Ring", a BIG grille, and "BAMM" you are the next M5 successor?
    BMW and Mercedes (dare I include Audi) have worked very hard over the last 40 years to secure their roles as automotive leaders in the luxury and performance cross breads. Has Cadillac learned a few tricks? Yes. Will those lessons learned be lessons lost? Let's hope not. Because, I do hope that Cadillac secures its fate in the superior performance luxury car Hall of Fame. Here's to the next 30 years of getting it right.
     
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  27. There also seems to be a small point overlooked.
    The Caddy CTS-V is up for grabs for $50k
    The M5, Mercs, porkers and jags are all about twice the price if not more.
    Correct, some parts of the CTS-v do look a little cheap, but for $50k who cares what your front grill looks like when the M5 owner is sat looking at your tails.
    MWOW as you're obviously great at facts and figures, care to pull together a power per dollar ratio for a chosen few models?
     
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  28. News flash: The CTS-V lost its own contest. A 21-year-old kid driving a stock BMW M3 beat Lutz. And no, the race drivers don't count. Too bad they used a new (and slower) Evo X instead of the older (and faster) Evo VIII RS.
     
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  29. I wonder how the Holden Special Vehicle Division's GTS 325 would have performed.
     
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  30. That's the E2 series I'm referring to
    Not as much hp as the Caddy. But still speed around a track is a function of handling, weight
    0 to 100km/h: 4.9 secs
     
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  31. "NEWS FLASH: the cts-v lost it's own contest". what kind of crap is that? "If bmw had a pro driver.....could have been, should have been, would have been" whatever. A 21 year old looses to Heinricy-a 64 year old guy (and not a small guy at that) by over 3.5 seconds. BMW, should have had the balls to say yes...but who knows if their "pro driver" would be any better than the 21 year old. btw, how stock was the bmw? Did it go throug the same scrutiny (done by Csaba) as the V?
     
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  32. News Flash Nicholai. The 21 year old kid, was a very skilled driver, who has a TON of track time. He was much closer in skill to the Caddy pros than he was to Lutz. If you say "the race drivers don't count" then the kid has to be thrown out as well. Did Lutz lose to the kid? yes. Did the CTS V lose when drivers of similar skill drove? no. The "spirit" of the competition was for similar cars to square off proving Cadillac belongs in this category of high end race inspired sedans. Caddy and Lutz were certainly big winners. The press from this event can't be bought. Give the kid credit for certain. But Lutz did not lose. His challenge was a huge success for Cadillac.
     
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  33. The Caddy is fine but it is somewhere between ugly and bland. I see by the results an unimpressive delivery via the drivers. Sadly, few drivers that make our stage are actually powerful drivers. BMW, across the board are dull vehicles. Too many suits in this chatter - unfamiliar with true fast or driving on the edge. Just because you can afford it, own it, and read the stats doesn't mean you have a clue.
     
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  34. Who gives a crap whether a CTS-V is faster in a circle than an M5, XFR or S6? Shouldn't "Maximum Bob" be spending his time and the resources of GM by working w/ the development guys in engineering and producing better cars for us all rather than hooning around a racetrack?
    I want GM to make the money back that they owe us and get on with business - Showing your balls on a racetrack w/ a few specially produced "Halo" cars isn't gonna do it.
     
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  35. GM went bankrupt. It went defunct. It died. It got GEC owned. BMW along with others lasted, despite poor returns.
    BMW E60 M5 is a platform introduced in 2005 with no major updates apart from a LCI update down the line. 2nd Generation CTS-V is a 2009 based platform, so theoretically plenty of time to fine tune a S/C LS9 V8 to produce significantly more power and torque. No surprise it would win with more power and torque... :O
    CTS-V 2nd gen fastest time on Nurburgring is 7:59.32. Fastest time on Nurburgring from Porsche Panarmera Turbo with 4.8L V8 is 7:56.29. 3 seconds faster...
    Enough said.
     
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  36. To think they put an evo in this category is crazy! the evo is at least 15 g's cheaper. Buy an evo drop 15 grand into it and then run it. I promise the cts-v will get smoked!! Not to mention the IT'S A FOUR CYLINDER!!!! Not some gas guzzling V8. GM need to leave the V8's to the Corvette's where they belong. They need to leave the 70's muscle car dream in the 70's. I am not haten on muscle cars, they just need to mix it up a little. Throw in a tuner or two. Tell me would you buy a 4.2 ltr inline 6 with a twin turbo set up and AWD in a malibu. F#@KIN Right I would!! However they think "Lets through a V8 in there and call it good." and get 8 mpg. I could go on for hour about this subject. To compare a 4 cyl. to a V8, and they are compareable, is saying something for Mitsubishi. And it is not bad. To think it's not the fastest evo made either.
     
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  37. I think everyones comments on here are valid but did anyone stop to think that the top time came from the driver in the speed world challenge series? They've won for 3 years that I have seen personally. Cadillac CTS-V (John Heinricy): 2:46:560
    Not only is he a executive but a real licensed race car driver. Put the factory drivers from other car manufactures and im sure you will have different results. I personally think the cts-v is a great car but make it fair. The other participants were regular enthusiast with heavy right feet and a little skill. So my question is when will the field be even? To me its like when Ford introduced the GT (which is their top of the line baddest sports car made for America) and saying it will beat the f430. Compare apples to apples.
     
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  38. Come on!
    It was a sham! I bacically pitted professional racers John Heinricy and Johnny O'Connell against Joe Shmoes and Journalists...WTF. It is all about seat time. We have all seen those cute videos of stock Miatas and MINI Coopers passing Vettes and Porsches at the local track day, basically that is what this challenge was. Intermediate drivers is great cars against pro road racers in a decent car.
     
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  39. No offense to the CTS-V, but this race was BS. I just got done watching it on Speed. First of all the track was a lot dryer for the all the drivers of the CTS-V's(with the exception of Jack Baruth). Second, most of the people during this race had prior race experience. How is that fair? I say rematch.
     
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  40. Yes, how about Bill Auberlen against John Heinricy and Dirk Müller against mystery driver Johnny O'Connell and retired bmw racer Hans-Joachim Stuck against road racer retiree Brian Redman.
     
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  41. Want to keep it fair or realistic? You can't. It is absolutely impossible to get consistent or accurately measurable numbers from any of these cars. So, instead of arguing, how about this?
    Have the same driver... (doesn't matter if it's a trained race driver, a regular joe, or novice) and have that said driver, and ONLY that driver, in ALL of the cars to run around the same track. Put a very capable car first and the least capable car towards the end (to give the driver the most track time before driving the least capable car). A few practice laps with each car first to get a feel for them and warm them up, then run a few laps and use the best lap time as it's "Recorded Track Time." Along with that, to give the driver a little more competitive spirit, put another driver out there, at the same time, with the same model car. You could also do this for two consecutive days, running the cars in a different order on the second day. That could possibly give you the most accurate numbers between the two identical cars, only two drivers, and the two days worth of track runs.

    Yes, I know that environment affects a car's performance; such as ambient air temperature, humidity, track temperatures, and all that. Also, I understand that running a car at midday will give it a different time than in the early morning or late evening... but, you can't have everything.
     
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  42. (continued...)
    I honestly believe this would create an entirely new set of numbers for everyone to debate. These numbers could most likely give something altogether new to argue about.
    It would cost a small fortune, I'm sure, to have this all set up.... but it couldn't possibly cost more than all the fortunes spent between these auto manufactures paying for race drivers, endless numbers of track hours, and advertising budgets. I, for one, would be happy to volunteer as a "regular Joe" driver to spend a couple of days chasing best times in some of the worlds greatest four door sports sedans. And when it's all over, I would be glad to use the experience as an educational insight to better chose between them all, as far as which one I would buy for myself.
     
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  43. COME ON! anyone with Common sense smells Lutz's BS HERE!!
    I agree that American Cars MORE THAN ever need all the Help they can get!
    But Seriously? is anyone fooled by this ?
    How come when some young inexperienced kid in a 4 door M3 beats the original CTS-v time Lutz hires some last minute Pro's? Lutz was shook!
    Imagine a Pro in any of those BMWs or Audis? lol!
    We need a 3rd Party Rematch! Not a Biased company endorsed publicity Stunt!...Dont believe the Hype!!!!!
     
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  44. I completely agree with boosted!! What a half hour of bullshit! And so exactly why did all the rookies have to go first? Dry the track for the pros maybe? Sorry GM, but you never have or will produce a vehicle on par with the quality of anything that comes from germany or the UK. Saying that you do is just absolutely laughable. Hey Bob, lets get some of the audi r10 drivers together in the rs4's against your plastic thrown together waste of time, and we'll see what's what. IDIOT
     
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  45. Everybody has some bias or brand loyalty. If BMW had hosted this challenge, BMW would have won - If Audi had hosted this challenge, Audi would have won - If Porshe had hosted --- you get the point!
    I myself have an Audi S4. I have also owned Porsche and BMW.(European bias)I still have to give it up to GM for finally making a sedan I would consider buying!
     
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  46. For all of you wanting a comparison with the same driver, same track, same conditions etc. It's already been done. Read Road and Track, Car and Driver, and Motor Trend Magazines. The V wins every time over, the M cars, the Merc C63, the Jag XRF. Porsche Pana wasn't out yet when the articles were written and it probably wins now only when it is optioned out to about $150k. I'll take 2 Vs please for the same price and have money left over. Or I can drive the crap out of one and baby the other.
     
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