Bob Lutz Cadillac CTS-V Challenge Results Announced
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Last month, during a discussion with journalists about General Motors’ new “May the Best Car Win” marketing campaign, Bob Lutz laid down the challenge to any journalist to a duel with the Cadillac CTS-V to see if any comparable car could topple the Caddy.
The guys at Jalopnik quickly accepted, putting forward Wes Siler who was originally planning to race in a Jaguar XFR until officials pulled the car because of fears of the brakes overheating. Luckily Siler still had a Mitsubishi Evo on hand.
He was joined by Jack Baruth from The Truth About Cars who also drove a Cadillac CTS-V and several ‘civilians’ driving a BMW M3, a BMW M5, an Audi RS4 and even another Cadillac CTS-V.
Well, the event took place today at the Monticello Motor Club in Monticello, N.Y. and we now have the results. Taking top honors was former GM Performance Division Executive John Heinricy with a lap time of 2m and 46.56s in the Cadillac CTS-V.
1. Cadillac CTS-V (John Heinricy): 2:46:560
2. Cadillac CTS-V (Brian Redman): 2:49:183
3. Cadillac CTS-V (Aaron Link): 2:48:902
4. BMW M3 (Michael Cooper): 2.50:424
5. Cadillac CTS-V (Jack Baruth): 2:51:153
6. Cadillac CTS-V (Lawrence Ulrich): 2:53:026
7. Cadillac CTS-V (Bob Lutz): 2:56:321
8. Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X (Wes Siler): 3:08.126
9. BMW M5 (Michael Mainwald): 3:08:989
10. Cadillac CTS-V (Chris Fairman.): 3:14:292
11. Audi RS4 (Tom Loder): 3:15:702
12. Jaguar XF (Archan Basu): 3:16.670
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flyhead Posted: 10/15/2009 3:27am PDT
moshpit Posted: 10/15/2009 7:31am PDT
My Wheels On Walls Posted: 10/15/2009 10:08am PDT
In the words of Mr. Chapman "added lightness"
Tall Paul Posted: 10/15/2009 12:18pm PDT
Not sure your Chapman quote applies to any of these.
Elmo Posted: 10/15/2009 11:05pm PDT
you do realize that the CTS-V has already beaten the M5 right?
oh and flyhead, what's wrong with the M5 being in the challenge? its Cadillac's direct competition for the CTS-V.
Cort Posted: 10/16/2009 8:00am PDT
Tall Paul Posted: 10/16/2009 8:36am PDT
I am one of those strange people that has very little brand loyalty. If a car company, or any other company for that matter, can produce a great product I respect that and consider it. Maybe that's why I tend to look at the details like weight and such. It helps get a better understanding of why certain products are the way they are. Hooray for Cadillac. I hope they continue making better and better products.
My Wheels On Walls Posted: 10/16/2009 12:27pm PDT
The BMW carries 8.024 LBS per horse power
The Caddy carries 7.593 per horse power.
How do you take your crow; baked, fried, maybe in a pie perhaps?
Ultimatley its just gratifying to see that with a huge amount of pressure Detroit is seeing the light!!!!
My Wheels On Walls Posted: 10/16/2009 12:43pm PDT
Panamera S 9.92 LBS per horse power
Panamera 4S 10.25 LBS per horse power
Panamera Turbo 8.68 LBS per horse power
Although for the Turbo Porsche could run the GM test at 12,000 feet above sea level and just storm away with the victory!!!! It worked for Ford.....
So what would I rush out and buy?
The Caddy spec V in a wagon (when it launches next year) and the Porsche because I have penchant for ugly Porsche's. Having had two 928's run through the family garage...
Tall Paul Posted: 10/16/2009 4:24pm PDT
Weight affects more than acceleration.
My Wheels On Walls Posted: 10/16/2009 4:50pm PDT
I've noticed on this site that most people tend to just jump on the Euro band wagon (which is where I'm from) without sampling what else is out there. The first gen Spec V was complete pile of shit and the clutch pedal would come back at you ready to take your leg off but the current car really is a good car and puts the Euro's on notice much as Lexus did twenty years ago.
There are a few notable's on here with sense though i.e. Gus and NoNameDenton to name just two.
Tall Paul Posted: 10/17/2009 5:55pm PDT
I know Gus, and Gus aint no....just kidding Gus.
I have a Mustang too.
John Posted: 10/20/2009 3:17pm PDT
Aidan Shiller Posted: 10/20/2009 4:10pm PDT
Aidan Shiller Posted: 10/20/2009 4:11pm PDT
me Posted: 10/21/2009 6:18am PDT
Mark Webber Posted: 10/24/2009 6:36pm PDT
Jean Todt Posted: 10/24/2009 6:42pm PDT
It's like Audi making the R6, waiting for the M5 to come out, then making the RS6 to be sure they beat the M5.
If BMW wanted it, they could easily destroy the competition. It turns out the competition needs two tries to beat the M5.
I'm only saying that if there were a BMW MS5 or MR5, whatever, it would anihilate the competition - actually there would be no competition.
My Wheels On Walls Posted: 10/24/2009 8:24pm PDT
I think you'll find the European luxury market has standard models, sporty but not to sporty, and then full on hardcore sport models. i.e. Audi has a 6, S6, and RS6. Merdcesdes has SLK, SLK AMG, and SLK AMG Black Mercedes also has the three model's on their SL range too...
If anything BMW and their M5 are missing the boat on compromise.For some it is to hardcore for the daily commute and for some customers it may not be hardcore enough!!
Jean Todt Posted: 10/25/2009 2:28am PDT
lol but seriously, I hadquite some champagne before writing this, see, I have been partying a lot after I won the elections. I forgot the CTS was the standard model and supposed the CTS was like the R6 for the Audi A6 model. Yes, a stupid mistake.
Still, the rest applies, with concerns to mid sized sedans like the 5 series, A6, E class, CTS etc. BMW makes one sport version, like Mercedes - there is only the E 63 AMG. Whereas Audi make the R6 and then the RS6 to beat the M5.
jaytea Posted: 10/25/2009 6:05am PDT
Roberto Posted: 10/26/2009 9:47am PDT
Sorry, I just threw up in my mouth after reading that fanboy response. BMW is hurting after getting beat down by Caddy and they have nothing near ready to beat the CTS-V.
cj Posted: 10/27/2009 12:32am PDT
I guess BMW might want to start wanting it, cause they are getting killed. So I guess they just took a few years off, because they didn't feel like it? Put the crack pipe down Jean.
The Professor Posted: 10/27/2009 10:17pm PDT
Do you settle for the Performance/Luxury flagship? That said, BMW has intermittently held that position for the better part of the last 3 decades. If not, then do you settle in to the over engineered safety brute that is Mercedes? Dare you hope there may be a trained technician within a few miles? Do you go for the "Transporters" ferocity of a sedan and opt for the VW on steroids?
Or, Can you be the odd man out and just go by the track numbers this car posted around a track? Well, then, how about giving Cadillac a try? Sure GM is now owned by Obama... sure, Cadillac hasn't produced an ownership worthy car in the last 30 to 40 years, and sure, why not go for something that is the newest kid on the block? It's fast around a track, right?
The Professor Posted: 10/27/2009 10:18pm PDT
And that's what matters here, and that is what this article is about. Jaguar, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche... None of them are willing to have their butts kicked on a track by a Cadillac. A time-has-only-told-they-are-all-crappy, American, plastic, Cadillac. Despite how good it really is. That what this article is saying. Not which is the best car to own. Not which car will surely be worth every penny. Not, "How long is your warranty? Cause, You'll need it!" Ask yourself, "Is it FAST?"
Oddly, no one has mentioned the Infinity G37 sedan or coupe. Not the Lexus IS-F. The boy toy Mitsu EVO was typed in somewhere, but I saw no mention of the Subbie STi. No Chrysler 300M-SRT-8, no Hyundai Genesis, not even the all-mighty 200mph Continental Flying Spur Speed! No one has even brought up the Maserati Quattroporte S, for the love of graham-crackers! Talk about a gorgeous piece of art. And that sound..... a true sports sedan that was built for the Gods.
Hell, lets bring the Jaguar to the track. If anything, the Jag would be the only car in the lineup that should be there. A mesh-mash of multi-continental engineering crammed in a car with an extremely inconsistent and rippled past. Ford owned it for a while, so that should be good enough! Is it FAST?
The Professor Posted: 10/27/2009 10:32pm PDT
I have had the true pleasure of driving nearly each of these marvelous machines. (minus the Bentley) I gasp at their greatness. I rejoice in the pleasure with which they each graced me. The memories of each drive invoke a swirling grin on my face. I don't at all consider the Cadillac CTS-V to be inferior, nor do I believe that it doesn't NOW belong within the likes of the Mercedes AMG's and BMW M's. I am thrilled the engineers at GM have put together such a magnificent toy. However, what I don't understand is how the track numbers make it worthy of instant "Glamour" status.
Is that what it takes? A few over-achieving years of good thinking, some parts bin sharing, a quick trip around the "Ring", a BIG grille, and "BAMM" you are the next M5 successor?
BMW and Mercedes (dare I include Audi) have worked very hard over the last 40 years to secure their roles as automotive leaders in the luxury and performance cross breads. Has Cadillac learned a few tricks? Yes. Will those lessons learned be lessons lost? Let's hope not. Because, I do hope that Cadillac secures its fate in the superior performance luxury car Hall of Fame. Here's to the next 30 years of getting it right.
JonnyRockit Posted: 10/28/2009 3:29am PDT
The Caddy CTS-V is up for grabs for $50k
The M5, Mercs, porkers and jags are all about twice the price if not more.
Correct, some parts of the CTS-v do look a little cheap, but for $50k who cares what your front grill looks like when the M5 owner is sat looking at your tails.
MWOW as you're obviously great at facts and figures, care to pull together a power per dollar ratio for a chosen few models?
Nicholai Posted: 10/29/2009 2:14pm PDT
Jenas Posted: 10/29/2009 7:44pm PDT
martin jenas Posted: 10/29/2009 7:55pm PDT
Not as much hp as the Caddy. But still speed around a track is a function of handling, weight
0 to 100km/h: 4.9 secs
Brian Nutter Posted: 10/30/2009 11:49am PDT
cj Posted: 10/30/2009 12:12pm PDT
dr Posted: 10/30/2009 3:50pm PDT
bepsf Posted: 10/30/2009 6:55pm PDT
I want GM to make the money back that they owe us and get on with business - Showing your balls on a racetrack w/ a few specially produced "Halo" cars isn't gonna do it.
John Posted: 10/31/2009 8:33am PDT
BMW E60 M5 is a platform introduced in 2005 with no major updates apart from a LCI update down the line. 2nd Generation CTS-V is a 2009 based platform, so theoretically plenty of time to fine tune a S/C LS9 V8 to produce significantly more power and torque. No surprise it would win with more power and torque... :O
CTS-V 2nd gen fastest time on Nurburgring is 7:59.32. Fastest time on Nurburgring from Porsche Panarmera Turbo with 4.8L V8 is 7:56.29. 3 seconds faster...
Enough said.
Rob Posted: 11/2/2009 11:50am PST
alex Posted: 11/4/2009 10:16am PST
Not only is he a executive but a real licensed race car driver. Put the factory drivers from other car manufactures and im sure you will have different results. I personally think the cts-v is a great car but make it fair. The other participants were regular enthusiast with heavy right feet and a little skill. So my question is when will the field be even? To me its like when Ford introduced the GT (which is their top of the line baddest sports car made for America) and saying it will beat the f430. Compare apples to apples.
Felipe Posted: 12/8/2009 7:37pm PST
It was a sham! I bacically pitted professional racers John Heinricy and Johnny O'Connell against Joe Shmoes and Journalists...WTF. It is all about seat time. We have all seen those cute videos of stock Miatas and MINI Coopers passing Vettes and Porsches at the local track day, basically that is what this challenge was. Intermediate drivers is great cars against pro road racers in a decent car.
Philippe Posted: 12/8/2009 7:38pm PST
Felipe Posted: 12/8/2009 8:23pm PST
The Professor Posted: 12/13/2009 7:12pm PST
Have the same driver... (doesn't matter if it's a trained race driver, a regular joe, or novice) and have that said driver, and ONLY that driver, in ALL of the cars to run around the same track. Put a very capable car first and the least capable car towards the end (to give the driver the most track time before driving the least capable car). A few practice laps with each car first to get a feel for them and warm them up, then run a few laps and use the best lap time as it's "Recorded Track Time." Along with that, to give the driver a little more competitive spirit, put another driver out there, at the same time, with the same model car. You could also do this for two consecutive days, running the cars in a different order on the second day. That could possibly give you the most accurate numbers between the two identical cars, only two drivers, and the two days worth of track runs.
Yes, I know that environment affects a car's performance; such as ambient air temperature, humidity, track temperatures, and all that. Also, I understand that running a car at midday will give it a different time than in the early morning or late evening... but, you can't have everything.
The Professor Posted: 12/13/2009 7:14pm PST
I honestly believe this would create an entirely new set of numbers for everyone to debate. These numbers could most likely give something altogether new to argue about.
It would cost a small fortune, I'm sure, to have this all set up.... but it couldn't possibly cost more than all the fortunes spent between these auto manufactures paying for race drivers, endless numbers of track hours, and advertising budgets. I, for one, would be happy to volunteer as a "regular Joe" driver to spend a couple of days chasing best times in some of the worlds greatest four door sports sedans. And when it's all over, I would be glad to use the experience as an educational insight to better chose between them all, as far as which one I would buy for myself.
boosted Posted: 12/15/2009 2:10pm PST
I agree that American Cars MORE THAN ever need all the Help they can get!
But Seriously? is anyone fooled by this ?
How come when some young inexperienced kid in a 4 door M3 beats the original CTS-v time Lutz hires some last minute Pro's? Lutz was shook!
Imagine a Pro in any of those BMWs or Audis? lol!
We need a 3rd Party Rematch! Not a Biased company endorsed publicity Stunt!...Dont believe the Hype!!!!!
Robert Seibold Posted: 12/21/2009 9:30am PST
I myself have an Audi S4. I have also owned Porsche and BMW.(European bias)I still have to give it up to GM for finally making a sedan I would consider buying!
cj Posted: 1/3/2010 9:57pm PST
Have an opinion?Join the conversation!