Nissan defends GT-R Nurburgring lap time with second video

Viknesh Vijayenthiran October 9th, 2008

By Viknesh Vijayenthiran Author October 9th, 2008

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December 31st, 1969 Earlier this month we reported on accusations hurled by Porsche towards Nissan, accusing the Japanese carmaker of falsifying the blistering Nurburgring lap time of 7m 29s recorded for the GT-R back in May. The accusations managed to reach the upper echelons of Nissan management, prompting representatives at last week’s Paris Motor Show to state emphatically that the times recorded for the GT-R around the Nurburgring were achieved "on absolutely standard tires which are available to customers in the showroom," and that any sort of slick tires were never used. A Porsche chassis engineer took a standard GT-R bought in the United States with regular road tires, and tested it on the same day against a Porsche 911 GT2 and a Porsche 911 Turbo. According to Porsche, the GT-R posted a time of 7m 54s, with the 911 Turbo managing 7m 38s and the 911 GT2 getting down to 7m 34s. Porsche's contention that the GT-R takes 7m 54s to lap the 'Ring adds a rather significant 25 seconds to the lap time recorded by Nissan's chief test driver Tochio Suzuki. Nissan stated that they were at a loss as to why Porsche was unable to replicate the GT-R's blistering time around the Nurburgring, putting it down to differences between the drivers. Speaking with Drive, Nissan's European spokesman Neil Reeve stated that Nissan continues to "absolutely maintain (that) Tochio Suzuki pounded thousands of laps and got to know every inch of the Nurburgring and hence set that fabulous lap.” Reeves went on to comment that it was "flattering that Porsche have bought themselves a GT-R and flown it to Germany" for testing, but that "the people who'd buy a GT-R or 911 Turbo are not the type of people to make a purchase like that lightly.” He also reaffirmed that the GT-R has beat the 911 Turbo during a number of independent tests for both acceleration and circuit lap times. Nissan has now released an image of the actual tires used for the test plus a second video of the lap as proof that its 7m 29s lap time is legitimate. In an official statement Nissan claims that “there are some important facts that were not accurately represented.” Nissan has revealed that the GT-R used in the official lap time was actually at a disadvantage due to up to 50kg of testing equipment. According to GTRblog, Nissan has also offered free driver training for Porsche if it wants to attempt a second lap. You can see the first official GT-R Nurburgring lap time video in our previous story by clicking here.Nissan GT-R in depthNissan releases second GT-R Nurburgring lap time clip

Car valuation experts predict the GT-R will retain 84% of its list price after 12 months or 10,000 miles

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Earlier this month we reported on accusations hurled by Porsche towards Nissan, accusing the Japanese carmaker of falsifying the blistering Nurburgring lap time of 7m 29s recorded for the GT-R back in May.

The accusations managed to reach the upper echelons of Nissan management, prompting representatives at last week’s Paris Motor Show to state emphatically that the times recorded for the GT-R around the Nurburgring were achieved "on absolutely standard tires which are available to customers in the showroom," and that any sort of slick tires were never used.

A Porsche chassis engineer took a standard GT-R bought in the United States with regular road tires, and tested it on the same day against a Porsche 911 GT2 and a Porsche 911 Turbo. According to Porsche, the GT-R posted a time of 7m 54s, with the 911 Turbo managing 7m 38s and the 911 GT2 getting down to 7m 34s.

Nissan offers proof that standard tires were used for the GT-R’s 7m 29s Nurburgring lap by releasing new video and image of actual tires used in the test

Enlarge Photo

Porsche's contention that the GT-R takes 7m 54s to lap the 'Ring adds a rather significant 25 seconds to the lap time recorded by Nissan's chief test driver Tochio Suzuki. Nissan stated that they were at a loss as to why Porsche was unable to replicate the GT-R's blistering time around the Nurburgring, putting it down to differences between the drivers.

Speaking with Drive, Nissan's European spokesman Neil Reeve stated that Nissan continues to "absolutely maintain (that) Tochio Suzuki pounded thousands of laps and got to know every inch of the Nurburgring and hence set that fabulous lap.”

Reeves went on to comment that it was "flattering that Porsche have bought themselves a GT-R and flown it to Germany" for testing, but that "the people who'd buy a GT-R or 911 Turbo are not the type of people to make a purchase like that lightly.” He also reaffirmed that the GT-R has beat the 911 Turbo during a number of independent tests for both acceleration and circuit lap times.

Nissan has now released an image of the actual tires used for the test plus a second video of the lap as proof that its 7m 29s lap time is legitimate. In an official statement Nissan claims that “there are some important facts that were not accurately represented.”

Nissan has revealed that the GT-R used in the official lap time was actually at a disadvantage due to up to 50kg of testing equipment. According to GTRblog, Nissan has also offered free driver training for Porsche if it wants to attempt a second lap.

You can see the first official GT-R Nurburgring lap time video in our previous story by clicking here.

Nissan GT-R in depth

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Nissan releases second GT-R Nurburgring lap time clip

Tags: Japan, turbocharged, nurburgring, Supercars, turbo, AWD, V6, R35

Posted in: 2009, Nissan, News, Coupes, GT-R

by Gus Chyba #1, Posted: 10/3/2008

I'd love to see a shootout...
by www.mywheelsonwalls.com #2, Posted: 10/3/2008

Why don't Porsche just build a car that beats Nissan's claimed time instead?

Oh thats right, they prefer a good "ole" fashioned temper tamtrum instead, just ask VW!!
by SuperSkyline89 #3, Posted: 10/3/2008

Porsche could make a car that could smoke the time of the GT-R, and they do, just not at that price point. They can make some awesomely fast cars - just look at the GT3 RS, GT2, and Carrera GT - but they're never what you'd call affordable. They're always incredibly overpriced, you pay tens of thousands of dollars just for the badge.
by bones #4, Posted: 10/7/2008

ok, lemme get this straight: a Porsche CHASSIS ENGINEER takes a GTR around the track and now accuses that Nissan is lying about the lap time beacause HE can't match the lap time set by the Nissan TEST DRIVER. And of course, this same engineer is capable of driving his employers cars around the track at the same pace as the Porsche test drivers....riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight....

what a load of BS this all is!

get the Stig or Sabine Shmidt on the job and settle it once and for all in an objective manner or stop hyping this crap!
by SuperSkyline89 #5, Posted: 10/9/2008

"Nissan has also offered free driver training for Porsche if it wants to attempt a second lap."

OUCH!!!

I like bones' idea, the new season is set to start on the 26th (according to the blog comments on the official site) but then if a challenge like this is going to happen it would already have had to been filmed already. I doubt it'll happen, at least not this season, hopefully the next.
by loki #6, Posted: 10/14/2008

.. I really don't see how they expect to counter Porsche's claims that they used normal tyres on the runs with this video.. I'd like to see them actually tape the moment when they mount the tyres on the car that is then taken out for a lap. you know, like Audi did when they did that spot for the Quattro system at the ski jump ramp. that would be something !

now, I am quite a Porsche fan and I do think and accept that the GT-R is (or could be) faster than the 911 Turbo - and I also think that Porsche's attempt to put Nissan's claims in doubt is ..at least "clumsy", but I also think that Nissan are taking this too far with their sarcasm. even if they have a faster car (and if they do, why not accept a shootout ?), they mustn't forget Porsche's history, pedigree and racing heritage - that they are quite far from equalling.

and in the end, it's a question of philosophy: Nissan wanted to make a car that was easy to drive and help even a (very) clumsy driver get the most out of it. Porsche's philosophy is to make driving fun and rewarding.. just do a lap of any track in both cars and then see which one makes you feel better about your skills..
by PG Wootown #7, Posted: 11/24/2008

A couple of things: Sorry Its lengthy.

1 - I think its was in bad taste for Porsche to call Nissan a liar. So for Nissan to offer driving lessons to the Porsche "Test Driver," I think thats absolutely hilarious... and well deserved.

2 - No Supercar Marque in their right mind is going to publicly say, "Yeah, we bought a GT-R took it to the track, and it kicked our ass." So what happened? Could have been a "Only Tell You Part of the Truth Story." Example: They (Porsche) took the GT-R to the track and said it was slower than Nissan claims... Half the story, half the truth. What they didn't tell you was they had four people in car and a trunk fuel of luggage. The whole/rest of the story. Kind of like a politician, making a statement but spinning words or twisting actions of others to fit their claims or agendas.

3 - Why doesn't Porsche just accept a straight up shootout at Nurburgring? Is it because they know after putting the Nissan on track, that Nissan was correct. (crickets chirpping) Nissan has repeatedly invited them out to the track, and still Porsche refuses.

4 - Nissan also has a great racing history, but we here in the states and the guys across the pond don't hear about it, because their racing mostly happens in Asia.

5 - I think some people are missing the point. When Nissan built the GT-R, they wanted to prove two things. One. that Companies, regardless of WHO they are, could build a car that was capable of competing on the level of the worlds best. For years they've been knocking at the door with the Skyline GTR and its many variations. Now they've finally cracked the nut. And two, that Car Companies, regardless of who they are, could build a "Supercar" that could be "Affordable" and affordably manufactured. Getting power, performance, luxury style and class, at an acceptable price to todays consumer.

Im not a Nissan fan nor am I Porsche fan (but I'm slowly becoming one). Im a Mazda fan. So the battle between the two Marques, doesn't matter to me that much.

Nissan has always and will continue to always build cars for the masses. However, every Marque needs a flagship. They chose the GT-R as something they can be proud of, stand behind and set a benchmark to the rest of the world on how something of high calibur can be done, and produced, efficiently.

Porsche is and has always been an Icon in Sports Car racing. They don't build car for the masses. Its also an enthusiast's car. Their cars are still assembled by hand... and the quality AND price show it.

I think in this case, it was in poor taste for Porsche to say those things about a manufacturer that it doesn't even compete with. Maybe Porsche should accept the invite for the shootout... or send an executive or VP to another test and physically be there when Nissan runs the car. I think Porsche is upset that a forgein Marque came into their backyard and showed them up at a track dominated by Porsche and BMW.
by wsx #8, Posted: 12/10/2008

Take another look at that video. At 04:02 (00:00 when they started timing) there is a metal wall/barrier to the right of the track (where the crew are standing). At 11:33 (7 min 29 when they stopped timing), there is no wall to the right of the track. Okay... what can we conclude from this? That Nissan started and stopped timing their "lap time" at different points on the track - they didn't time the complete full track time, they cut it short. Furthermore, they used a running start which isn't standard practice at the ring - that should take off another couple of seconds from their lap time. All respected track time completed at the Nurburgring was done using a standing start.

No doubt the R35 is a true Japanese supercar, but it's not a wonder machine as Nissan claims it to be. Call it bad sport if you want, but Porsche was correct to call Nissan cheaters. You can't just leave Nissan bragging on about a false claim. Someone's got to shut them up.

This video may fool boy-racers who believe that tuned up Japanese sports cars with Nitro is the fastest thing on land and even faster than a bloody rocket (blame it on 'The fast and the furious'), but to anyone who is rational enough to not be blinded by this hype, this video only proves that the stock (if it even is a stock machine) GTR's time of 7:29 was an incomplete track time with a running start.

Also, Porsche's test driver is the Walter Rohrl. In case you didn't know, he holds a record track time at Nurburgring and has been racing at the ring for far longer than you spent your life watching TV. He knows the Nurburg track better than any of you know your own face. He's been driving at Nurburgring all his life and drove the 24 hour Nurburgring race in heavy fog and rain only anticipating the corners by timing and memory with minimal visual cues. He was also elected Rally driver of the century in Italy. Walter Rohrl is an international hero and one of the best driver alive to be taking the wheel, regardless of what car it is, on Nurburgring.
In comparison, Toshio Suzuki is only a local amature. Suzuki holds no championships, no wins, and not even a podium finish at any major racing tournaments.
So shut your hole you cheating buggers at Nissan and go back to your drawing board.

P.S. The Stig is a great driver too for sure, but Walter Rohrl is far more qualified, especially if you're talking about running the Nurburgring, and you're all guilty of watching too much Top Gear.
by damn u #9, Posted: 12/13/2008

WSX ?
Walter is your dad? Just curious.
by Countach #10, Posted: 1/18/2009

What WSX said!

Having seen the video, its not convincing! Sorry Nissan, you lied!
by dccr #11, Posted: 1/22/2009

Actually, only the guys at GM seem to use halted start in their time attacks at the ring (not sure about their time with the Corvette ZR1 - possibly a running start considering its very fast lap time of 7:26). But I'm pretty sure that lap times are supposed to finish where they start. By examining Nissan's released video, it looks like that they cuts off a bit of the track probably shaving off a few valuable seconds the lap time. So I guess a lap time of 7:40 would be a more realistic figure with the GTR, possibly even in the mid-late 7:30's, which is incredibly fast nonetheless.

But I did read this - that the R35 developing team have been hogging the Nurburgring for almost a year, running the track with the GTR prototypes hundreds of times before they ran the ring with the finished product. In comparison, other developers rarely spend more than a day at Nurburgring, let a lone a few hours. The guys at GM spent roughly 3 hours practicing on Nurburgring before they ran the time attack. If every developer spent that much at the ring as Nissan had done, every car's lap time would be much faster, and GTR's laptime wouldn't be considered nearly as fast at all. But no one is that obsessed with record times at Nurburgring.

In the end, it just shows that Nissan were just too obsessed with times at Nurburgring and they missed the whole point of running it = Nissan only proved that their driver wasted almost a year at Nurburgring to the point of memorising every grain of asphalt on the track.