Report: Mercedes Benz to phase out V12 engine
December 31st, 1969
The push by governments around the world for stricter emissions regulations for new cars has all carmakers, from mainstream makes like Toyota and GM all the way up to exclusive brands like Mercedes Benz and even Ferrari working on new methods to clean up their act. One trend we’ve already started to see is the downsizing of engines. Both Ford and GM, for example, are starting to place less emphasis on their big V8 engines in favor of more economical V6 engines, and this trend is being repeated at BMW and Mercedes Benz.
Mercedes is developing new technologies to boost the output of its compact four-cylinder engine range – the Diesotto being the most recent development.
While the Diesotto sits at the lower end of the engine spectrum, Autobild is reporting that Mercedes has cancelled plans for a future V12 engine codenamed M295 and will instead develop a new twin-turbocharged V8 powerplant. The M295 would have replaced the current M275 family of V12s but instead Mercedes will launch two new turbocharged V8s, with four different power levels.
Not only are the V8 engines more fuel-efficient, they are also lighter and smaller and develop similar power bands when equipped with turbochargers.
Mercedes development chief Thomas Weber expects to see the trend towards smaller engines continue. Speaking at the Detroit Auto Show back in January, Weber said Mercedes “will strongly force the trend in downsizing” – for both diesel and petrol models. He went on to claim the past decade’s trend for larger and more powerful engines would be sharply reversed.
One of the first steps, Weber revealed, will be the use of A- and B-Class engines in the larger C-Class range. After that, three-cylinder turbocharged engines ranging from 1.4 – 1.6L in capacity are a very real possibility.
Late yesterday another report emerged claiming that BMW’s sacred M Division was also planning to phase out its traditional high-rev, naturally aspirated V8 and V10 in favor of forced-induction six-cylinder and V8 units.
The push by governments around the world for stricter emissions regulations for new cars has all carmakers, from mainstream makes like Toyota and GM all the way up to exclusive brands like Mercedes Benz and even Ferrari working on new methods to clean up their act. One trend we’ve already started to see is the downsizing of engines. Both Ford and GM, for example, are starting to place less emphasis on their big V8 engines in favor of more economical V6 engines, and this trend is being repeated at BMW and Mercedes Benz.
Mercedes is developing new technologies to boost the output of its compact four-cylinder engine range – the Diesotto being the most recent development.
While the Diesotto sits at the lower end of the engine spectrum, Autobild is reporting that Mercedes has cancelled plans for a future V12 engine codenamed M295 and will instead develop a new twin-turbocharged V8 powerplant. The M295 would have replaced the current M275 family of V12s but instead Mercedes will launch two new turbocharged V8s, with four different power levels.
Not only are the V8 engines more fuel-efficient, they are also lighter and smaller and develop similar power bands when equipped with turbochargers.
Mercedes development chief Thomas Weber expects to see the trend towards smaller engines continue. Speaking at the Detroit Auto Show back in January, Weber said Mercedes “will strongly force the trend in downsizing” – for both diesel and petrol models. He went on to claim the past decade’s trend for larger and more powerful engines would be sharply reversed.
One of the first steps, Weber revealed, will be the use of A- and B-Class engines in the larger C-Class range. After that, three-cylinder turbocharged engines ranging from 1.4 – 1.6L in capacity are a very real possibility.
Late yesterday another report emerged claiming that BMW’s sacred M Division was also planning to phase out its traditional high-rev, naturally aspirated V8 and V10 in favor of forced-induction six-cylinder and V8 units.
Report: Mercedes Benz to phase out V12 engine
November 28th, 2008
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November 28th, 2008
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November 28th, 2008
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Mercedes is developing new technologies to boost the output of its compact four-cylinder engine range – the Diesotto being the most recent development.
While the Diesotto sits at the lower end of the engine spectrum, Autobild is reporting that Mercedes has cancelled plans for a future V12 engine codenamed M295 and will instead develop a new twin-turbocharged V8 powerplant. The M295 would have replaced the current M275 family of V12s but instead Mercedes will launch two new turbocharged V8s, with four different power levels.
Not only are the V8 engines more fuel-efficient, they are also lighter and smaller and develop similar power bands when equipped with turbochargers.
Mercedes development chief Thomas Weber expects to see the trend towards smaller engines continue. Speaking at the Detroit Auto Show back in January, Weber said Mercedes “will strongly force the trend in downsizing” – for both diesel and petrol models. He went on to claim the past decade’s trend for larger and more powerful engines would be sharply reversed.
One of the first steps, Weber revealed, will be the use of A- and B-Class engines in the larger C-Class range. After that, three-cylinder turbocharged engines ranging from 1.4 – 1.6L in capacity are a very real possibility.
Late yesterday another report emerged claiming that BMW’s sacred M Division was also planning to phase out its traditional high-rev, naturally aspirated V8 and V10 in favor of forced-induction six-cylinder and V8 units.
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Comments (19 total)
Meet the top commenters on the LeaderboardBy Gus #1, Posted: 1/14/2008
I eagerly await this diesotto technology.
There has got to be a way to extract all the wasted power in gasoline.
By Gojira #2, Posted: 1/14/2008
If all this works & more importantly, sells, Acura can feel better about its lack of a v8 RL & 4 cylinder TSX.
By Gus #3, Posted: 1/14/2008
Acura is still wasting 75% of the energy in gasoline. They all are.
But Diesotto might change all of that...
By Renton #4, Posted: 1/14/2008
It is 1981 all over again, small engines....lower performance. This time over "being green"?
I lived through that craphole era of 175 bhp Z28 Camaros.
WTF?
I want to waste gasoline. Let the folks who don't care save it.
I'm burninating as much as I can.
By vb #5, Posted: 1/15/2008
Have you even read the text? This isn't mainly about decreasing power but about increasing efficiency.
By HECTOR #6, Posted: 1/15/2008
This is a good development. I'm sorry but we don't need family sedans, SUVs or... what's the R class again?... with 600bhp. I want power, I want speed but it's utterly ridiculous to have an engine in a car that will never see the upper half of its power band used by the average owner.
PS - I don't believe in global warming like I didn't believe in the Atkins diet. Back then I refused to buy any product that advertised being *low in carbohydrates* and now I refuse to buy any product that advertises *being green*. It's all a fad and it will pass sooner or later.
By chris #7, Posted: 1/15/2008
I'm going to reiterate what VB said; this is about maintaining power levels while improving mileage (not necesarily efficiency; look up the formal definition of efficiency, you'll find that you'll be specifying MILEAGE more often).
when ford and GM are replacing their V8's with V6's that have more output, less displacement, and inherently better mileage (a turbo'd engine doesnt get much worse mileage than a regular model, unless the turbo is engaged. a friend of mine went from a mazda3 with an auto to the speed3 with the 6 speed manual and hasnt noticed a difference in the mileage. the losses of the auto are the same as the losses of the turbo). thats because unless you're driving like your hair is on fire, the turbo isnt spooling up and the engine is basically running in its normal operation. its called power on demand and its GREAT.
Hector; I'm with you. global warming is a crock. sure CO2 levels haven't been higher than they are in the last 650,000 years, sure this and sure that... but in the end the evidence is not conclusive. you wanna know what climate is going to be like in the next 50 years? im going to guess warmer than it is today... but nothing like theyre saying. its a scare tactic being used by scientists to get people to do what is right; accept more efficient technology, reduce waste, reduce energy consumption.
i will disagree on one thing; it isnt a fad. this is here to stay. you think back 30 years, to the 427 mustangs and all this crap, and think about how many engines we have around that are like that. the biggest engine you can get in a mustang (not the cobra) is a 4.6L. even the cobra runs a 5.4L. engine size has come down, and will continue to come down.
what i dont know is if i like the reduction in the number of cylinders. I dont have much experience with V8's.,.. or even 6's for that matter; but i can see the argument to want to keep high numbers of cylinders. Instead of reducing the number of cylinders, why dont we make smaller engines? at least in the premium markets that is. then again maybe the v6 is the new v8. There's a lot of people in my generation that dont know what V anything is like.
regarding merc; they have to do it. if ford and gm are doing it, they have to do it. if ford and GM can get v8 power out of a v6 and v6 power out of an I4 (actually the 2L conceptualized in the explorer sounds more like a v8 as well), then merc would look like fools if they didnt do it. ford has claimed they will have all turboed engines by 2014. merc had damned well better have something to edge out ford by that time, and used in every engine too. diesotto? i hope so.
ps.. hector; i hate the whole global warming thing but i agree with the results. its my engineering side; everything should be more efficient and we should be more green. not cause the world is going to end. it isnt. so stop trying to scare the public. Green is here to stay cause companies, governments, and citizens are finding ways that it can pay off.
By Lucifer #8, Posted: 1/15/2008
Yes, there really is no reason for the IS-F but like others have said: luxury brands are not going to stick the same engine in an Accord/Camry into their cars. They will use diesels/hybrids/turbos to get more out of less -- which has been Acura's way of doing things.
You will still have plenty of HP & torque, you will just be using less oil when using it.
By Tod #9, Posted: 1/15/2008
I believer we do contribute to global worming however not as much as the enviromentalist want you to believe with 0 emisions in this world the earth would porbobly be still getting warmer.
By chris #10, Posted: 1/15/2008
right tod. just not as much as the doomsday theorists.
By John #11, Posted: 1/16/2008
TO HECTOR: and who cares what an ignorant hispanic thinks about global warming? There are thousands of educated scientist that can proof with scientific data that global warming is real and man-made.
What's with all this bas and depressing news lately?!
Is Mercedes-Benz selling out, too?!
What about Maybach and the cooperation effort with Aston-Martin (project Alligator/Romeo & Juliet) on the higher end? V12s are essential in the top-end range.
Wishful thinking and definite possibility: Perhaps Mercedes-Benz stopped development of the M295 V12 range perhaps due to the cooperation program (Romeo & Juliet - nee Project Alligator) with Aston-Martin, and would likely source V12s from the Aston-Martin and upcoming Lagonda range for their higher end models and Maybach line, this seems like a solid reason. Aston-Martin having a V12 range is possibly the call as to why one is no longer needed from MB?
I completely agree with MB's decision to phase out V12's but I then again, if we can get a high efficiency V6 to make V8 power, and a high efficiency V8 to make V12 power, is there anyway for top level V12's to make W16 power? I understand this sounds absurd, but a V12 hybrid system with VCM could possibly make good mileage. I'm not saying these high efficiency V12's should be instated for all models, only the top of the line models.
i completely disagree with MB's decision. Sure smaller and more full efficiant cars are the future but Mercedes-benz has some high end tradition to with hold.
I can understand Audi or even BMW dropping V12's in favour of turbo V8's but not Merecedes-benz. Their are only three models in the Merc range (exluding AMG's) that have V12's. And they are the S600, CL600 and the SL600. All the best in their class. They are what Mercedes-benz's should be, smooth and comfortable. the 600 engine is not focused on speed, (the 63 AMG is approx the same price in each range) but rather pure tradition and what Mercedes-benz is all about. I dont believe Merc will drop the 600 engine, but they may drop the 65 engine, (V12 twin turbo.) It would be a shame if MB dropped the 600 engine.
I will miss the V12
I think this could hurt sales cause a lot of people not only buy v12 for the smoothness and power, but also for the exclusivity of having a v12 in their car.
Maybe there are doing it because they are cuddling up to Aston Martin for their V12s
Regarding MB phasing out the V12 - a knowledgeable source from the site www.carspyshots.net, which I frequent has this to say, reposted below:
"What the articles say is mostly true, Mercedes-AMG are planning to phase out thew V-12, but in it's place will come a V-10. This new engine will feature a twin-turbo set up in the regular Mercedes line-up, with a displacement of close to 4.5 liter and will produce 550 BHP, with a AMG version displacing 5.0 liters and producing close to 750 BHP thanks to larger turbo's. The Maybach actually doesn't need the huge amount of horsepower that it had to be world class, Mercedes desided to take that step to be higher up the food chain then Rolls-Royce with it's 6.75 liter V-12 producing 453 BHP, and Bentley's 6.75 liter twin-turbo V-8 just now producing 530 BHP. I mean the Maybach's engine in base form, displaces 5.5 liter and producing 550 BHP, with a 612 BHP version in the Maybach S line-up."
This makes sense, and the V10 will fit in the engine-bays of the cars well, for a reported reason of discontinuing the V12 successor was for a lack of fit in next-generation models, even though basically tree models get the V12 - regular and AMG editions of these.
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